Capture’s Tim Levy took the opportunity to sit down with Anne and find out about: the path to becoming an art photographer; investing in photographic art; the inner workings of the National Gallery of Australia's acquisition system; the state of the Australian photo gallery scene; her career in the industry and more.
(Supplied by NGA)
How do you decide on a photographic exhibition?
As a curator, you go from project to project. I usually choose monographic sort of exhibitions such as Dianne Arbus and currently Nan Goldin. I love photos, stories and writing. So I like where biography and art intersects, as well as the emotional response to art. I just think that’s how we sort of connect with each other – through storytelling, and through exploration of the human condition. So that for me is sort of where I sort of find my happy place. This all being said, I’m also into conceptual art.
There are many photographic topics I enjoy. We have Henry Fox Talbot in the collection from 1842 and we just bought a Sir Isaac Julien video piece that was made last year. But this is the nature of the job – we go from photojournalists in the 1950’s to the 1860’s from all around the world. And that’s what makes the job exciting – but you have to be across everything as much as you can.
I find photography fascinating as photography serves every master with no moral compass.
It’s a tool of colonial projects. And on the flipside, it’s a great tool of activism. But generally everyone relates to photography on so many levels. Photos are a substitute for memory. Anyone can use a camera and it seems so simple – but it is actually such a complex, compelling medium.
As photography is so popular – is NGA considering having a dedicated photography gallery?
We did have a dedicated, beautiful photography gallery which was fantastic. But we don’t even have an official Curator of Photography anymore. I think there’s a little hierarchical thing that still happens in museums where painting is at the top. An interesting thing is – NGA does surveys and everyone’s just like ‘we want more photo shows.’ So we’ve actually got about 30,000 odd photographs in the collection. And it would be nice to share more of them with the public, as most are just stored in archival Solander boxes.
So it’s the same at the AGNSW – there’s no longer a dedicated photography gallery which is a real shame.
Yeah, I guess it’s sort of a hangover or something, you know, photos have only been in the museum for what, maybe 30 or 40 years now – since the early 80’s.
I suppose people think that paintings are unique one-off images, while a photographic print can be replicated. Then again, you can pay millions for a photo. Or you can print from a negative and then destroy the negative to make that print unique. Can I ask how much the gallery spent on the Nan Goldin exhibition?
We used to be very secretive, but now we have to be more transparent. For Nan Golden – it was about it was that US$550,000 / AU$700,000 – which is ‘reasonable’ for one of the leading photo essays of all time. These were the edition of 10 in 1986 when the book came out and she kept 10 of 10 for herself. All printed on Cibachrome.
We bought Nan’s work in 1994 and she had already been in the Witney Biennial in 1985. We bought her work before she was really big.
So it is also about investing at the right time like how the NGA bought Pollock's Blue Poles for $1.3 million in 1973 – now it’s valued at $500 million.
That’s right. We bought three Cindy Sherman ‘Untitled film stills’ for under $1,000 a print in 1990 or 1992. Now some her iconic images are worth more than a million each. That is amazing buying. The early curators here did have a lot of money and they needed to build a collection fast. Some purchases were misses, but many were winners.
It’s a shame that photo galleries have suffered because of real estate prices being too high… (RIP Stills Gallery, ACP etc). It makes it difficult to see (and purchase) actual photographic prints.
People love the materiality of prints. Cibachrome is a dead medium, and maybe highly toxic though they last almost forever with their brilliantly saturated colours (see Mark in red car by Nan Goldin)
Do you restore photos at the gallery?
We have a great restoration/ conservation department. We recently fixed some prints that were literally in pieces – they are miracle workers. Some prints have been adhered onto really acidic boards and they need to be expunged to ensure the print would last.
Who makes the ultimate decisions on which exhibitions are put on in NGA?
It’s a big institution. You do a proposal. Then it goes to a working group. Then we work out what other shows are going on in the building regarding scheduling. There is a commitment to ‘living artists’ to help them – as opposed to the art dealers. This means buying the images directly from the artist or the artist’s gallery.
If you can buy from the artists gallery as opposed to the secondary market, the artists may get 50% or more of the fee, while on the secondary market the artists may only get 1%. You can’t forget that artists are the most important part of the NGA – without them, this is an empty building. So Australia needs to have systems to support art and artists.
Unfortunately, Australia doesn’t seem to support artists as heavily as Scandinavia, New York or London.
What makes a good art photographer?
Anyone can take a good snapshot or photo, but I guess there is the practise of ‘an artist’ and somebody who has intent and the commitment of a of their art over time.
What about competitions and photo prizes? Do they help photographic artists?
They bring photographers to the public attention which is a good thing. Shay Kirk who won the Portrait Prize is a good example. He’s all about community and helping people. He is such a modest, beautiful person. He sells prints for only $500. But will it make his work collectable? Time will tell.
Is there a policy for Australian over foreign photographers?
Acquisition policies last 5 years. Unfortunately we haven’t bought much contemporary photography of late. This may or may not change.
Do photographers ever submit work to the NGA?
People have to have a bit of a track record before we think of looking at them. It’s usually photographers that are represented by galleries in some way and they have a track record when it comes to collectability. But, some photographers don’t want to have a gallery.
It is a national collection – not a small regional one, so there is a difference for what we are after. For example, Polly Borland isn’t in the collection.
So what is it that makes a good curator?
You have to have a good eye. In the end it’s what the curator or director likes, and they have to trust their gut instinct. For example, we bought a small image of Claude Cahun for $200,00 before anyone knew who she was. Now it’s worth a lot. You have to look her up – amazing back story of escaping the Nazis etc. It’s about buying work really early as it appreciates later.
What were you doing prior to this gig?
I feel like I’ve had something like 25 careers now haha. I started off doing history in Uni and ended up sort of in medieval architecture, classical and Byzantine art. Then I was sort of studying and working in the library and at the gallery. I never got to art school, but I did a lot of life drawing, printmaking and stuff. I ended up going at PhotoAccess (ACT and region’s centre for contemporary photography, film and video and media arts) and doing photo editing there. After that I ended up getting the job at NGA. It’s a great job and I love to see how exceptional photographic artists can somehow share their way of seeing through a little mechanical box.
Tell us about this Nan Goldin exhibition (recently exhibited at NGA & showing at the Art Gallery of Ballarat from 2 March – 2 June 2024)
The exhibition is basically a photo diary that lets you into her life. A life that is living on the edge of society in the music and art scene in NYC around 1985. All the photos are based around post-stonewall gay subculture, the heroine subculture of the Bowery neighbourhood and Goldin’s chosen family – her friends, as well as her love life.
Many of the photos are fairly confrontational – though her rule for these photos are that she wouldn’t take an image of something that she wouldn’t mind being taken of herself. It’s a snapshot aesthetic – but in a tasteful way.
She put together a slide show of 700 images and she would show people, re-edit and reorder the photos over time until she boiled it down to 126 images to create a more concise body of work.
She was a highly ambitious artist and quite political. Her latest work is seen in the documentary All the Beauty and the Bloodshed (currently playing on SBS on Demand) – which documents her takedown of the Sackler pharma family.
What does the NGA have in store for us in the near future?
We have some vintage Olive Cotton and it’s beautiful work. It should be a very popular show.
Interestingly, as not everyone can make it to Canberra, there is a push to share the National Collection on long term loans across the country. For example – Nan Goldin will tour, because it is work owned by the Australian people and it is there to be shared. So some of the smaller regional galleries will receive these photos and work.
Thanks for the conversation!
The Nan Goldin exhibition – The Ballad of Sexual Dependency, will be be on loan from the NGA and appearing at the Art Gallery of Ballarat from 2 March – 2 June 2024)